The Upper Class Are Children

Yet another rerun from the MTStars board.  I’ve included the posts I was replying to so as to give context to the arguments I was making.  I put my posts in bold.  This conversation took place right after Obama’s victory at the polls and was part of a raging tidal wave of sore losers.  Considering what a sore loser I was after Bush won his second term I should be one to talk.  It’s heart rending when the guy you supported and think would make a great president loses.  Especially since you’re guy spent the entire election telling you how the other guy is going to get his [theocracy/socialism] all over your democracy and force you to be [straight/gay] while [corporations/big government] steal your money and trigger a [Great Depression/a thousand year Moses style curse of darkness].  Then the losers spend the next 4 years complaining that they didn’t get what they wanted while the winners spend the next 4 years lamenting that they didn’t get what they wanted.  Then we all get back to our starting positions for the next one.

Bumper sticker idea: Whatever-loser-my-party-dredges-up 2016.

_______________________

Libs voted for this – and we’ll all suffer

Just watching all those people there last night, waving their little flags, totally oblivious to what they have just done. All I can do is pray. Are they going to be so happy and hopeful when gas is $6 a gallon?

You do realize gas is going to be $6 – Fanatical Hypocrite
Posted: Nov 7th, 2012 – 3:22 pm In Reply to: Libs voted for this – and we’ll all suffer

No matter what. How would Romney have prevented fossil fuels from ever running out? No matter what, there will be a gas crisis in all our futures. It’s an inevitability.

While I don’t think this country is out of the woods just because Obama’s still in there, mainly since the president has only so much power to effect the economy, I do feel we have a better chance with him than with Romney. Romney’s nonsensical plan to increase spending, lower revenue, destroy social progress, outsource everything, burden the middle class with corporate debt and make the debt magically disappear was pie in the sky. Our recovery will be long and slow no matter who the president is and it could all come crashing down regardless.

I see this as due to the fact that the economy is being manipulated by an upper class that is both extremely greedy and ignorant. They want more money, have no moral objections as to how they get it and no real idea on how the economy works to prevent the sort of catastrophes we’ve seen so far. They are children with matches.

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Do you believe fossil fuels will run out – in our lifetimes?
Posted: Nov 7th, 2012 – 3:33 pm In Reply to: You do realize gas is going to be $6 – Fanatical Hypocrite

I believe gas will be $6 a gallon in the coming years because libs will not allow domestic drilling for oil. It is here on this continent and drilling for it would instantly bring the price down, create jobs in the energy industry and create prosperity. Obama tried his green energy ideas, Solyndra anyone? How many millions of dollars did us taypayers lose with that one? But instead we are dependent on foreign oil and at their mercy in terms of price.

Depends on definition of out – Fanatical Hypocrite
Posted: Nov 7th, 2012 – 6:28 pm In Reply to: Do you believe fossil fuels will run out – in our lifetimes?

I’m 27, so if I’m lucky and live very long, I’ll see the end of petroleum as a major world commodity. Will it run out? No. Will there be enough for cars and power plants? No. Oil isn’t going to run out, but the number of people using it will be so much higher than the amount of oil coming out of the ground that it will make no difference. Gas prices will continue to rise exponentially now.

As for Solyndra, yes, it was a failure, but the majority of green tech investments are still going with a larger margin of predicted failure still unmet. Green tech creates jobs too.

As for the millions lost by taxpayers, I feel we must factor into fossil fuels the cost of environmental repair. I’m not talking about climate change, I’m talking about verifiable pollution and contamination of air, water and ground water through drilling, fracking, mining, refining and utilizing. Domestic drilling could theoretically lower the cost (if the oil companies decided to kick the profits back to us) in the short term, but America is not Saudi Arabia of old. Short term gains would then be met by prices raising once again and a subtotal collapse of the oil industry from untenable pricing due to dwindling supply and growing demand.

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about that debt – sm
Posted: Nov 7th, 2012 – 3:52 pm In Reply to: You do realize gas is going to be $6 – Fanatical Hypocrite

The man who has burdened the middle class is Obama. His effect on the economy has been to increase the national debt faster and farther than all of history! You say the president has only so much power to effect the economy. Well, i say thank God for that. someone or something has to hold this man in check or who knows where we would be. Anybody wanna move to Greece? Or maybe adapt to Chinese rule?

The debt is harder to assess than – Fanatical Hypocrite
Posted: Nov 7th, 2012 – 6:38 pm In Reply to: about that debt – sm

one might expect. First off, many could blame the vast majority of the debt on Bush. His spend first and pay later method of financing the wars led to a massive swell of debt. This was further ballooned by tax cuts, tax rebates, increases to Medicare and the stimulus.

Furthermore, much of the debt accumulated during Obama’s administration is from the continuation of the tax cut, more stimulus packages (which I disagree with him over, but at least he put some minor safeguards on the money rather than a blank check) and the continuation of the wars. Now I would have already abandoned Afghanistan and Iraq by now, so I disagree with Obama on that too, but still, he didn’t start the wars. Only the equally stupid war in Libya.

As far as Obamacare, the administration claims it won’t cost anything, the opposition says it’ll sink the country and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Rumsfeld would say that it is a known unknown, something we know that we don’t know.

Greece is a different matter as they are resourceless country using someone else’s currency (thus preventing them from properly manipulating it to their own benefit) and a sense of entitlement that even us lazy liberals can’t match.

__________________
sm – dina
Posted: Nov 7th, 2012 – 4:02 pm In Reply to: You do realize gas is going to be $6 – Fanatical Hypocrite

Your last paragraph:

I see this as due to the fact that the economy is being manipulated by an upper class that is both extremely greedy and ignorant. They want more money, have no moral objections as to how they get it and no real idea on how the economy works to prevent the sort of catastrophes we’ve seen so far. They are children with matches.

This is so full of contradiction and inaccuracy it is not even funny. how can the wealthy not know how the economy really works but yet be the ones who manipulate it? And really, just how jealous are you. Too bad, someone has money that you don’t have so call them all greedy and ignorant. You are willing to condemn the entire “upper class” because of the actions of some. You do know that in our society you basically only hear about the bad. The good goes on about its business without notice or recognition, right? Your true colors are showing, and it is green, and not at all becoming. There is also a large portion of that upper class you so malign that are wonderful upstanding people who are generous, kind, and giving people. You just are too blinded by your own jealousy to see it. Without their contributions, I shudder to think what might not be funded and/or accomplished. do yourself a favor and do some research into charitable giving, charitable action, charitable foundations and the like. then you might look like you know what you are talking about instead of coming off as the green eyed monster.

You make a good point about charity – Fanatical Hypocrite
Posted: Nov 7th, 2012 – 6:59 pm In Reply to: sm – dina

I think you misunderstood me – I wasn’t as clear as I should have been – that I was implying some kind of global conspiracy by saying they were manipulating the economy. My metaphor about them being kids with matches was to imply that they know how to manipulate the economy, they just don’t know how to control it. In the same way a child can create and manipulate fire, yet lacks the knowledge to control it or even know that they can’t control it.

I stand by my metaphor that they are children. Children aren’t bad. They simply haven’t developed a concrete sense of morality yet. Many rich people give to charity. Oftentimes it’s the arts. Art is a central drive of humanity and I feel without it human beings are nothing more than animals in suits. BUT, I feel that we have an obligation to take care of the sick, homeless and starving first, before we go to the ballet.

So, many of the rich are great people who champion the causes of the weak and disenfranchised. You are right and I applaud them for their humanity. However, many of their ilk can’t be trusted and must remain within the law and that law must encompass all of us. Otherwise, there is no point to a code of laws. Even if a millionaire chooses to be a good person, the fact that it was a choice for them and not for us shows the hypocrisy within the system.

In regards to my jealousy, that is a common problem. We all experience jealousy. However, to be jealous, one must covet what another has. I am jealous of a lot of people, but I covet nothing the rich have. What would I do with a personal submarine, my own tropic island, a mansion in a gated community or a jet? I have no where I want to fly. I’m only one man, so I need a house with only one bedroom. I was raised by Protestant Catholic Quaker Humanist Jews (Thanksgiving was a non-violent, yet very loud holy war) and taught to value the land, family, love, nature and humanity. So while I have a million and one failings, being jealous of rich is not it. I don’t even need a dime of their money sent my way. I want no entitlement. No check in the mail or dollars off my tax bill. What I want to see is less people in mansions and more people off the streets. Less people eating gold (actual food item) and more people getting a warm meal in their bellies. Less people going wind surfing with nude models and more people getting to live to spend time with their families because they got to see a doctor. If that’s jealousy, I am very, very, very jealous.

So, to me, the rich are children. We can’t be too strict, or we’ll damage their frail little psyches, but they need structure. They need rules and limitations. Or they will be spoiled brats all their lives and they will never become adults.

“No man is above the law and no man is below it; nor do we ask any man’s permission when we require him to obey it. Obedience to the law is demanded as a right; not asked as a favor.” – Teddy Roosevelt.

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About fanaticalhypocrite

I'm your average agnostic Irish Catholic Welsh Jew born in rural West Virginia as the mildly autistic son of a motorcycle riding nurse and an unemployed, ex-military, atheist theology major (likes there's any other kind.) Just another tragically disconnected member of the bitter American proletariat living in the twilight of U.S. world dominance. I'm a medical transcriptionist by day ("They're going to fire me tomorrow" has been my motto for 11 years), a security guard/campground host/lost & found department/problem solver/bouncer/bookkeeper understudy 24/7/365, and a nerdy wannabe writer by night. And also day. My life is basically a non-linear blender full of random activities. And now I run a blog because... why not? It's not like I was using my precious time to cure disease or end world hunger. Might as well tell a bunch of strangers about why [insert anything here] really pisses me off.
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5 Responses to The Upper Class Are Children

  1. Sabura says:

    My atheism aside, I totally agree with DP’s overall sentiment here (and yours above): “If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to.” ― Dorothy Parker

    I’ve been meaning to go back through the archives to check out the PB around election time since I wasn’t hanging out around there then and missed all that. I’m just curious, don’t really like to engage in schadenfreude … much. 😉

  2. billyjoe1970 says:

    Hey, Got banned from MTStars for Same Stain. Apparently we can be called names and its just fine. Anyway look forward to reading more of your blog.

    • They banned you completely? That’s a bit extreme. I try to be respectful, since it’s everyone’s board regardless of political persuasion, but sometimes a poster has pushed me over the edge. I like the old moderator better. I think the new one is fairly right leaning. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t envy them their task, but the conservative side has been fairly vicious and constant in their remarks since… forever.

      • billyjoe1970 says:

        I do too but these last 2 days honestly its been too stomach turning. Obviously right leaning cause an impartial effective moderator would say “look enough on this subject, it has been hashed to death and its too polarizing so no more.” But thats just my opinion. On the email banning me I replied how nice that we can be called brainless (which the finally censored), and the story about “oh I leave commie cause the liberals like it”. Thats why I starting putting in my name. Oh well. I look forward to reading your blog and maybe I will start one up. I need to vent where it cant get me in trouble LOL.

  3. A dem/Fellow Traveler says:

    Hi, Fan. Nice to see your “Are Children” thread again. Or as I put it around that time, they’ve proven they can’t be trusted with the cake cutter, greedy little fingers that they have.

    I agree that our current moderator is way too easy to peg. She does clearly want to be fair but has trouble seeing where the line should be drawn. And why. Oh, well. She does give us a pretty long leash and only knee-jerks it now and then. And it is hard to get kicked off.

    Oh!, Speaking of, I’m sorry you managed it, Billyjoe. 🙂 You’ll have to open another email address and come back as soon as your gut’s calmed down. I’m the “probably is time for a break” poster, or whatever I said.

    My own suggestion for expanding into scrapbooking for those making a hobby of wallowing in political loss was just deleted (I’m not saying unjustly) as part of a group that was insulting and/or not related to OP’s topic, but I was actually trying to make a point. The whole Obama girls’ vacation is just the usual dog-whistle nastiness, but some of them probably have good sides too and spending half their lives trolling for smears can’t be healthy. At least I like to think so. Wouldn’t a get-together so we could all meet be fun? 🙂

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